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 Post subject: The Fallen
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:49 am 
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Citizen
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Thought I'd create this space for anyone to talk about the dead in this book - the seemingly endless tolls of dead, and the manner in which they died. Who were you happy or sad to see dead, and which death hurt the most? And further, who didn't die, that you thought should?

I have some of my thoughts below.


For me, Birgitte's death was the most brutal. It came out of nowhere, so quick, so savage.

Other than her, I think the big one is obviously Egwene. She was awesome right to the end.

I'm surprised that some of the Forsaken actually survive this, albeit in a...different state. And I think I would have preferred Tuon dead. I like her character well enough, she's just a little too capable...and considering the state of things when the book ends, and the fact the Seanchan are left relatively unscathed, it's all too easy to see how Aviendha's vision might come true. Semantics, I know, but I like thinking about such things.


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 Post subject: Re: The Fallen
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:08 am 
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Royal Guardian
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Birgitte's death shocked me as well. It was so sudden and brutal. She didn't even get a glorious death. At first, anyway.

Honestly, I didn't care much for the earlier deaths. Gawyn, Siuan, Bryne... Meh. For me, it actually started with Bela's death. That was the first that shook me a little. Then Birgitte... wow. Egwene's death made me cry, though it was amazing and glorious and perfect.

I'm honestly a little surprised that so many survived!


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 Post subject: Re: The Fallen
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:41 am 
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Tramp
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I don't think any of the deaths especially impacted me as being really sad. I was actually kind of hoping at least one member of Rand's harem wouldn't survive. Gawyn dying was basically what he deserved for being such an idiot. I don't get what Egwene ever saw in him except "omg so handsome" which she should have been better than. Siuan dying like, 10 seconds after Min was telling her that she needed to not be there or she'd die was pretty solid.

Egwene's death didn't really do anything to me, or much for me. Going super saiyan and providing the dues ex machinegun that made the battle winnable was great for plot forwarding, but I think the best thing that came of Egwene's death was providing temptation for Logain, and watching Cadsuane get roped into being the Amyrlin.

I think I'd have liked it better if Lan's sacrifice actually killed him.

I'd have REALLY liked it better if Rand had actually died.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fallen
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:59 am 
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Citizen
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Totally agree about Lan but I think with Rand, I'm much happier that he lived. Everyone expected him to die, and if he had, I would have been let down purely because it would have been too predictable. I love the idea of him just riding off to see the world and have adventures, and the line about it not being *the* ending, but *an* ending, provided a lovely little thematic closure for the entirety of the series.

Characters never get to just live once they've served their allotted purpose in a story, and I think the thing I loved most about it was that Jordan basically set Rand free at the end. It was like saying, 'I put you through absolute hell, and you never really had any choices of your own. Here you go. Live.'

I also agree that Gawyn's death was dumb. I was a little shocked at the ease with which he was dispatched, given he took out three of those Seanchan assassins by himself. His portrayal in this book didn't quite match that of the previous books but I did like that it set up an escalating scale with Galad and Lan.


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 Post subject: Re: The Fallen
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:01 pm 
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In what world is the hero riding off into the sunset unpredictable? It has its own tvtropes.org page

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 Post subject: Re: The Fallen
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Citizen
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In the world in which the protagonist's death is prophesied from the outset, the world in which it's not only prophesied but also has many features predicated upon that reality. Not to mention this is a world in which the protagonist not only accepts his death but actively works toward it. In short, I fully expected him to die, and took all hints as to otherwise, as feints. Well drawn feints to keep the option alive, but only that.

Mind you, the whole point of the ending is that it's not the ending. Just as there are is no beginning. It's impossible to call that a cop=out, as it's the central thematic point running through 14 books - literally the opening paragraph of every chapter, of every book, over a 20 year period - which is finally brought to a close.


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 Post subject: Re: The Fallen
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:53 pm 
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Tramp
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When everything repeats endlessly over and over, the only part of that process that is AT ALL interesting to hear about is the time through that finally breaks the cycle. If the ending of The Matrix was Neo deciding that it was too hard to fight against the agents, and to take the blue pill and go back and then roll credits, it would have been a terrible movie.

You can't tell me that for every time they went "Yup, the wheel is a wheel" they didn't also go "But THIS TIME Rand is going to do something DIFFERENT"

As far as I'm concerned, Rand failed.

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