Prince of Thorns

by **Stephan** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:44 am

Considering the author just signed up to our forums and this seems to be one of the better epics of the year, I think it's time to start an anticipation topic for Prince of Thorns.

You can find a review of the book here, and the book's website is here.

However, perhaps it would be even cooler if Mark can introduce his debut novel himself! What's the book about, Mark? How was the long road to publication for you?

Website · by **Read Blood** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:52 am

Great post Stephan! This is one I have been hearing a lot about it as well! Pat from Pat's Fantasy Hotlist went as far to say this could be a heavy contender for Best in Fantasy 2011.

by **Stephan** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:03 pm

Whoah! Well, we'll definitely be reviewing it in the weeks leading up to its release. I don't really like reading reviews of books that I won't be able to read for months, so I usually publish reviews of reviewing copies closer to release dates. I'm highly anticipating this read, though!

I'm interested to see if it can beat God's War, which is the best debut of 2011 so far.

by **Marty** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:37 pm

Yeah, everything I've read about it seems pretty damn awesome.

It's up against what? God's War, Among Thieves, The Unremembered, and a couple others for best debut, right?

by **Mark Lawrence** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:49 pm

Stephan wrote:Considering the author just signed up to our forums and this seems to be one of the better epics of the year, I think it's time to start an anticipation topic for Prince of Thorns.

However, perhaps it would be even cooler if Mark can introduce his debut novel himself! What's the book about, Mark? How was the long road to publication for you?

Hi Stephan, thanks for the welcome!

I like to read the reviews after I've read a book, but for anyone who likes to make more informed choices, all the reviews I know about are linked here http://www.princeofthorns.com/reviews.html
And quotes from Robin Hobb & Robert Redick are on the main page.

The long road to publication was actually very short. The long road to getting good enough to be published took 30 years, but I ambled and spent a lot of time in road-side taverns and on short-cuts that weren't. From writing to an agent to getting a book deal took 4 months, from getting an agent to getting a book deal took 6 weeks. I'm told there was a fierce international bidding war between 7 major publishing houses & that when they looked for a UK publisher every significant publisher bid. Nobody was more surprised than me. From the book deal to hitting the shelves in English ... that's been and continues to be the longest year and a half of my life!

I've been writing for a little over ten years now and before that I helped run a fantasy play-by-mail game for many years (itself an exercise in fiction), and before that I GMed way too many RPGs (which exercises the creative muscle).

I had to be bullied into sending 'Prince of Thorns' out because I was sure I'd meet with rejection and waste all my time chasing a hopeless dream when what I really enjoy is writing. In the years before sending 'Prince of Thorns' out I'd had a bunch of short stories published in various magazines but it was always hard work with plenty of rejection. I sold three stories to Black Gate magazine, it took years (literally) to get them through the slush pile and years later they're still waiting their turn on the pages, and all that effort for $100 a story. I should point out that Black Gate are an excellent market despite the timescales & the feedback they give is the best in the business.

The main reason I sent out short stories was just to see if I could get anything published and once I'd done it for a couple of years I stopped. I have a critique group and I get the most enjoyment just sharing short stories there and getting/giving feedback. The effort of sending out and being rejected half a dozen times before getting a hit, all to earn $10-$100, just didn't seem worth it. And I thought if it's this hard to earn $20 for a short story... I've no chance of getting a book published. In any event, I just wrote for fun, I make my living as a research scientist and writing is to unwind.

Oh... what's the book about? I was hoping to get away without saying. I still find that a very difficult question to answer. Um ... it's a blood-stained romp through a violent and dangerous world. We follow the fortunes of Jorg, a murderous young man who is quite prepared to lead an assault on heaven itself if that were require to get his way. At the same time Jorg paints the pages red we discover some of the reasons he is the way he is. My goal was to keep the readers' interest, whether through empathy or fascination, despite Jorg's excesses. I hope that as well as maintaining a fast pace and non-linear story-line the tale also offers deeper themes and will give the more discerning reader pause for thought.

There you go

Mark

Be my friend on Goodreads · by **Benni** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:03 pm

I can't wait to read it!! Thanks so much for the introduction and background.

Website · by **Read Blood** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:56 pm

This is so cool! Thanks a lot Mark for the great short peak into how you got where you are! And nobody can beat a synopsis for a book like the author right? But I somewhat understand and have heard from several other authors that they have trouble trying to relay what it is there book is actually about. It probably has something to do with how critical you have been with it. The story sounds great though and I for one cannot wait to read it!

by **Stephan** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:47 pm

It sounds pretty different, too. I can understand publishers lining up. How does that go, do they make a bid based on the synopsis or an excerpt, or has every single British publisher read your book before you landed the deal?

And yeah, thanks so much. It's pretty cool to hear. And it's actually nice to hear there are still authors who don't go through a huge struggle before getting published.

by **Mark Lawrence** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:40 am

Stephan wrote:It sounds pretty different, too. I can understand publishers lining up. How does that go, do they make a bid based on the synopsis or an excerpt, or has every single British publisher read your book before you landed the deal?

To be honest, I don't know. I do know that I got a great review on one forum from a French editor working at a publishing house that failed to secure the French rights. I think he said it made him feel like he was stealing his pay when he got to read books he loved so much. So it indicates to me that they read the whole thing if they're going to make a serious bid - and the UK deal was struck a fair while after the French, giving more time for reading.

Actually editing, securing new titles etc does sound like a fun job in a genre you love!

by **Mark Lawrence** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:46 am

Read Blood wrote::shock: This is so cool! Thanks a lot Mark for the great short peak into how you got where you are! And nobody can beat a synopsis for a book like the author right? But I somewhat understand and have heard from several other authors that they have trouble trying to relay what it is there book is actually about. It probably has something to do with how critical you have been with it. The story sounds great though and I for one cannot wait to read it!

Well I wrote a fresh description for this thread because it felt a bit cheap just doing a cut & paste from my website, but this is what I say there (& it addresses the 'difficulty' point):

FAQ: What's the book about?

I think a lot of authors find this a hard question to answer. Authors like to talk about the writing. Talking about the story is more difficult because it's asking for tens of thousands of words to be shoe-horned into tens of words.

Prince of Thorns is about a charming, dangerous, and amoral boy growing into a charming, dangerous, and amoral young man. On the journey he cuts down pretty much everything and everyone who gets in his way, and he's rather creative when it comes to the business of killing.

Where Prince of Thorns differs from a lot of fantasy books is that the story is the main character, Jorg. It's as much about who he is and why he is as it is about what he does. There's no evil overlord threating the goodly lands of Generica. There are no dragons, no fireworky mages spewing out magic like they just ate a bad spell. Our hero is as nasty as many a villain and he makes no apologies for it. However, if you read between the lines he delivers, you discover a new perspective on him that whilst it doesn't excuse his crimes, does go some way to explaining them.

So, turning tens of words into ten, it's a violent enthusiastic fantasy with a deeper sub-text.

by **Mark Lawrence** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:12 pm

I would be remiss in my shameless marketing duties if I didn't point out that a signed ARC is up for grabs on goodreads:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9579 ... -of-thorns

by **Michael** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:43 pm

In the interests of assisting your shameless marketing (which is going well for mine, the book sounds fantastic) and getting a question answered, will you be having a hardcover release and do you have any clue at this stage if there might be a way for your poor convict brethren from Australia to get a signed/personalised copy?

I can understand the answer to the second being no, since it sounds like you will be having a pretty big release and everything that goes with it.

Hulick v Lawrence v Orullian, early frontrunners for biggest debut of the year - and those guys are getting the jump on you Mark!

by **Mark Lawrence** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:10 am

Michael wrote:In the interests of assisting your shameless marketing (which is going well for mine, the book sounds fantastic) and getting a question answered, will you be having a hardcover release and do you have any clue at this stage if there might be a way for your poor convict brethren from Australia to get a signed/personalised copy?

I can understand the answer to the second being no, since it sounds like you will be having a pretty big release and everything that goes with it.

Hulick v Lawrence v Orullian, early frontrunners for biggest debut of the year - and those guys are getting the jump on you Mark!

'Prince of Thorns' is coming out in hardback in the UK and US. I have a feeling that it's to be a trade-paperback in Australia - couldn't swear to it, but that's my recollection.

The first review of the book was by Mark Timony who runs the Galaxy Bookshop in Sydney. A while later I had a brain-wave regarding book signings and checked it out with him, only to discover it was standard practice

The idea was to sign white sticky lables that could then be fixed into copies.

If it's pen to page contact you're after though - well I won't be hopping on a jet any time soon as I have to care for my very disabled little girl on a daily basis. I'm happy to sign and return any copies sent to me with return postage covered, but with postal costs these days it would probably be only slightly cheaper than coming over with the book yourself!

I guess if you really want to be frontrunner for book of the year you want to get it on the shelves on the 1st of January! My release is cunningly timed for 3 weeks after 'A Dance With Dragons' so it can be lost in the noise

by **myyrdneopia** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:36 am

Mark Lawrence wrote:I would be remiss in my shameless marketing duties if I didn't point out that a signed ARC is up for grabs on goodreads:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9579 ... -of-thorns

Hrm. Shame I already have one—albeit unsigned! It's still pretty freaking awesome.

My Goodreads review is here, though once I get a blog up and running, I'll probably do a much more in-depth review.

by **Mark Lawrence** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:22 am

In order to generate some of the anticipation that this thread is about:

A quick note to say that 'Prince of Thorns' is now published in the Netherlands as 'Prins der Wrake' and that I have a number of copies to send to anyone who runs an active Dutch-language fantasy book review/blog site. I know you're out there!

Drop me a line at empire_of_thorns@yahoo.co.uk ... while stocks last!

by **Stephan** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:57 am

That was one shameless plug, Mark. But I approve of everything that's Dutch. (Y)

by **Mark Lawrence** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:38 am

Oh I'm ashamed, don't worry

I'm not by nature a self-publicist. But it's hard to reach out to the denizens of a country whose language you don't speak & it seems silly to have these copies I can't read gather dust on my shelf. Plus - I figure where better to find Dutch folk than on a site with a Dutch owner? But by all means rub these posts out if they're inappropriate - I promise not to sulk!

by **Stephan** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:51 am

Haha, I actually don't mind authors promoting their books. I suppose you've mailed those review sites I linked you? I'll definitely keep an eye out for possible reviewers. The market is a lot different than the American or British markets, though. I don't think a real blogosphere even excists.

by **Elspeth Cooper** » Tue May 17, 2011 9:47 am

[drags thread kicking and screaming into the daylight]

Cracking review from Wert here: http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2011/05 ... rence.html

This is going on my pre-order list like *now*. Well done, Mark.

by **Michael** » Tue May 17, 2011 12:54 pm

With the big debuts this year, Peter Orullian's The Unremembered has had a lot of buzz generated especially by his mixed media promotion and Douglas Hulick's Among Thieves went under the radar and was terrific.

But I haven't heard such positive buzz generated by actual reviews for a book before release. It sounds like Prince of Thorns should be competing for not only best debut but possibly best book of the year!

Where do I get a signed hardback?!

by **Mark Lawrence** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:18 pm

Michael wrote:With the big debuts this year, Peter Orullian's The Unremembered has had a lot of buzz generated especially by his mixed media promotion and Douglas Hulick's Among Thieves went under the radar and was terrific.

But I haven't heard such positive buzz generated by actual reviews for a book before release. It sounds like Prince of Thorns should be competing for not only best debut but possibly best book of the year!

Where do I get a signed hardback?!

All the reviews I know about are here:
http://www.princeofthorns.com/reviews.html

(plus a bunch on goodreads)

& yes, they've been very gratifying. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before a bad one turns up though.

The Wertzone review was on the money with its warning that readers who like their fiction to keep away from the darker side of things, and readers who like their fantasy unadulterated, should look elsewhere.

As to how to get a signed hardback, that's going to be tricky. It will either involve a 24 hour flight for one or other of us, an extortionate amount of postage, or a very very very long pen.

by **Michael** » Tue May 17, 2011 10:00 pm

Mark Lawrence wrote:The Wertzone review was on the money with its warning that readers who like their fiction to keep away from the darker side of things, and readers who like their fantasy unadulterated, should look elsewhere.

Would it therefore be reasonable to recommend to my George Martin loving friends (of which there are now more, unsurprisingly), Abercrombie fans or are you taking it to another level altogether?

Sorry if those aren't fair comparisons, but I remember being shocked by Martin in my late teen years and occasionally by Abercrombie in the last couple of months!

After your reply I remembered already asking about signings earlier in the thread. Oops!

I don't suppose anyone like Goldsboro Books in London has gotten in touch with you? I'm not remotely aware of all of the options that exist but they seem fairly prominent in arranging in-store signings for online sale. I bought a numbered copy of Mark Charan Newton's first book from them, and the postage wasn't frightening. Postage from the UK to Australia tends to actually be quite reasonable (USA to Australia, forget about it!).

I'm not a huge book collector but I like the idea of being one. Maybe I'm just at that dangerous stage in life where the wife and I have been working for a while and don't yet have kids - too much disposable income!

by **Mark Lawrence** » Tue May 17, 2011 10:44 pm

Michael wrote:
Would it therefore be reasonable to recommend to my George Martin loving friends (of which there are now more, unsurprisingly), Abercrombie fans or are you taking it to another level altogether?

Not read Abercrombie, but I should think Martin has as much and more harsh realism in his books. I'm certainly not in the business of trying to out-nasty anyone, I'm all about story.

I don't suppose anyone like Goldsboro Books in London has gotten in touch with you?

Actually the 3rd or 4th somebody like that contacted me today. So yes, there should be options along those lines because I said yes to all of them.

by **myyrdneopia** » Thu May 19, 2011 2:49 am

Michael wrote:Would it therefore be reasonable to recommend to my George Martin loving friends (of which there are now more, unsurprisingly), Abercrombie fans or are you taking it to another level altogether?

For me, it wasn't so much that it was a lot darker than some of the stuff I've read, but that it gets inside the mind of a darker character as the primary character. I think the best way to classify it in my mind is as a revenge fiction without coddling. All cold steel and fire's fury. Very little (if anything) is held back. That being said, I really liked it, and it was a new taste of story for me.

Michael wrote:I'm not a huge book collector but I like the idea of being one. Maybe I'm just at that dangerous stage in life where the wife and I have been working for a while and don't yet have kids - too much disposable income!

Watch out, you might end up like me—and this top shelf (minus two of the books) is just me on a college budget:

Some of those are even signed—and I picked up the UK edition of one of the books.

by **Michael** » Thu May 19, 2011 4:12 am

I'm not entirely certain that I read your post correctly. You're trying to say that your favourite author is Stephanie Meyer right?

That's some serious dedication to one author. I'm 6 books into Dresden but I put Codex Alera on my 'It would be nice but I just don't have time list.' Maybe I should reconsider.

I've been spreading my (limited) collecting around a bit. I love some of the stuff Subterranean do, but not for the prices they have to charge. I'm looking forward to spreading my collection to include Mark Lawrence.

by **myyrdneopia** » Fri May 20, 2011 2:34 am

Michael wrote:
That's some serious dedication to one author. I'm 6 books into Dresden but I put Codex Alera on my 'It would be nice but I just don't have time list.' Maybe I should reconsider.

I would. It's what got me into the urban fantasy genre, the Codex. Because from there, I went to Dresden. And, as good as Dresden is, the Codex is just a little better, imo. The first book is definitely a good bit of world building, but the series hits its pace in the second book, and just picks it up from there in the third to the end.

Just a bit of trivia on the Codex—Jim wrote it on a bet. One of his friends bet he couldn't take a not-bad-but-not-too-good idea and make a bestselling series out of it. Jim said he'd take two.

by **myyrdneopia** » Fri May 20, 2011 5:28 am

Michael wrote:I've been spreading my (limited) collecting around a bit. I love some of the stuff Subterranean do, but not for the prices they have to charge.

I might be able to get my hands on a copy of SubPress' edition of "Backup" (the novella from Thomas' POV) if you're interested. I'd have to check around, and then maybe talk splitting the shipping fee with you. Oh, and the story would require that you make it to at least book 7 or 8 of Dresden.

[/shameless]

by **Stephan** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:06 am

Yeah, those Subterranean prices are absurd. Especially if you don't live in the US, because their shipping rates are quite extraordinary as well. I totally wanted Perfect Shadow, but it was just way too expensive. Naomi Novik is working on a short story collection for StP as well, containing Temeraire short stories based on art from her art contest.

by **Mark Lawrence** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:21 pm

I noticed the thread was active again!

...so here's a thing...

From the latest review of 'Prince of Thorns':

from 'A fantastical librarian'

"Very often this kind of publisher hype makes me rather wary and because of this Prince of Thorns had a bit of an uphill battle to win me over. But win me over it did."

Does everyone feel that way? It seems to me it's the general reaction, to kick back against a book the publisher is excited about. I can see why you might choose to discount the publisher's input entirely. It will of course be completely biased. All it tells you is that folks whose jobs it is to find fantasy books that people will like have a strong feeling that you'll like this one. But this reaction seems to go past discounting the hype and into some kind of assumption that the book will be worse than average, rather than average, or better than average...? Any insights on offer? It's all new to me because traditionally I've never looked online to make reading choices - though I do like to read reviews afterward.

Obviously having the publisher onside is a blessing ... but it appears it's also a bit of a curse too?

by **Michael** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:13 pm

I tend to think marketing represents a significant cost to the publisher, so if they really push a book it must be because it's good enough to make money on. I wouldn't discount a book due to hype, but if a hyped book was disappointing I would probably feel doubly let down.

The hype for The Unremembered by Peter Orullian won me over (purchased, not yet read). For that matter, so did the hype for a little book called Prince of Thorns (pre-ordered copy from Goldsboro)!

@Stephan - I couldn't resist Perfect Shadow. From both a fan and collector's perspective. I doubt the lightning of Peter Brett's Great Bazaar will strike twice, but have you seen what a second-hand copy of even the trade version of that is going for? :'(

by **Stephan** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:46 pm

Hypes usually win me over as well. Obviously, there will always be people who kick against the hypes, but I would honestly consider it a character flaw. Makes me think of a silly, mocking shirt that reads: "I listen to bands that don't even exist yet".

by **myyrdneopia** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:09 pm

I usually ignore hypes. But that's mainly just me and my own damn stubbornness against the advertisement-central society we live in.

by **SPAZinOL** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:22 pm

A bit of hype is a good thing, but too much of anything is a bad thing. I don't want to be beaten over the head by marketing professionals insisting they know what I'll like. I think that too much hype makes people/reviewers take it as a personal mission to determine why a book/movie/album doesn't live up to it. I think it's somehow opposite, but akin to why people love to root for an underdog. If there's too much hype behind a product (any product, not specific to books), there will always be some people who'd like to see it fail.

I mostly tend to ignore all hype/advertisements (for any product) as much as possible. That is to say that I don't form opinions based on the hype. But it certainly serves its purpose in making sure consumers are aware of a product. Too much awareness and we lose the feeling that we've discovered something special. Instead, we've just been smacked in the face with it. Just turns out we didn't hate what smacked us.

by **Stephan** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:43 am

Do publishers really create a hype? Because to be honest, all I see them do is perhaps support a book and initiating the creation of said hype. The hype itself is created by those that follow up on it.

For example, in the case of Prince of Thorns, the hype didn't start because of the publishers. I never saw a single advertisement for the book... The hype started when Fantasy Faction called it the best book of the year, and all other sites were like: "Whoah, we need to check that out!!" When they did, and they enjoyed it, that's when we had a hype on our hands. I tend to trust these kinds of hypes... Reviewers don't say a book is good because the publisher pays them to!

by **Mark Lawrence** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:56 pm

I've been puzzling about this one.

That review (which I repeat was very positive & said "this is one hell of a debut. I really enjoyed it immensely") said:

"As such it is receiving a huge publicity push. Very often this kind of publisher hype makes me rather wary"

I'm certainly not going to say there hasn't been a huge publicity push & hype - I simply don't know. I'm at the far end of this process and for the first time. Maybe bloggers and reviewers are subject to advertising and coercion I'm not aware of. I would in no way complain if my publisher did give the book a huge publicity push - that would be great for me and if they believe in the book it would be the right thing for them to do as well. _However_ I've never seen an advert for 'Prince of Thorns'. What Voyager have certainly done is print a lot of review copies and get them into the hands of interested/potentially interested parties... but can you really 'hype' a book by giving the book to people?

Is the distribution of ARCs the extent of the hype and publicity that people are complaining about - or have I missed something?

Asked in ignorance...

by **Stephan** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:38 pm

To be honest, as far as I've experienced in these nine months since starting RD, publishers only send out many ARCs when they expect the book needs that extra push. Basically, I get a lot of "B-books" offered, but the bigger books are harder to acquire.

Though, "B-books" isn't the right word for it. For example, I know that The Winds of Khalakovo got a big ARC push from their publisher. Pretty much every blog reviewed it early... but every blog also loved it. However, without that push, I wouldn't have heard about the book.

Still, us bloggers, we only know about the many ARCs being handed out by reading the other blogs. Everyone can read the other blogs. The hype then comes — in my opinion — from the fact that all these bloggers loved it and gave positive reviews. To stick with the example: in the case of Winds of Khalakovo, said hype was very well-deserved.

by **Stephan** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:47 pm

Also, what I find very interesting about your quote from Fantasy Faction's review is that he talks about a big push, but his review was one of the very first, if not the first. I remember their being quite some talk among bloggers on Twitter about how ridiculously early he reviewed the book...

I haven't seen the ARC, but might it be that the marketing strategy was printed in the ARC? I often get ARCs that tell me exactly what they will do and how much their marketing budget is. I always saw it as an informational thing, so that I, as a reviewer, would know what to expect, and perhaps whether I can ask for an interview or giveaway copies. I would certainly not get wary because of such information.

by **Michael** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:56 am

Coming soon to an Ipad near me (my hardcopy probably won't show up for a while)! It's awesome to be able to look forward to a new book every month or so. Very jealous of those with ARCs (or who are Dutch).

by **myyrdneopia** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:39 am

Michael wrote:Coming soon to an Ipad near me (my hardcopy probably won't show up for a while)! It's awesome to be able to look forward to a new book every month or so. Very jealous of those with ARCs (or who are Dutch).

I'm looking forward to the hardcover. I got my ARC back in February, so it's had time to season in my mind.

by **Stephan** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:27 pm

This book just blew my mind away. :w00t:

goodreads · by **Michelle** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:29 am

It's definitely one of the best things I've read all year (and I'm not just saying that because you're here Mark).
Hardback is due out in Australia on the 1st of August, while the trade is October 1st.

@Michael I got this ARC from my work without needing to ask but I also find that if I ask nicely and perhaps send a review I've already written of one of their books most of the AU publishers are pretty accommodating and will send me almost any book regardless of whether it needs a push.

by **Mark Lawrence** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:51 pm

Technically we can stop anticipating this one now - it's out there!

by **Michael** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:30 am

I still choose to anticipate reading it when I get home.

by **Aloren** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:48 am

So I just finished this the other day. I read it straight through... so fascinating. I am not sure if the site is writing a review for this. I believe so but I wanted to discuss it anyway... I also saw Mark joined the boards so I guess he can jump in to like Drake did for his books. <3

I have been reading some of the other reviews and I disagree with many of them. I think some of these reviews missed the point. Maybe I read to much into it?

Either way the writing is fantastic ... It does not seem like a debut novel at all. Even the naysayers admit to the skilled writing, saying things like. "I did not like it but could not stop reading it" I am paraphrasing but it read something along those lines.

So what did you think of it? I have plenty more to say but wont lay it all on you at once. What to see if anyone else has read it as of yet.

by **Stephan** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:06 am

I've read it too. I'm publishing our review in a couple hours, will respond in more detail after that. In the meantime, I am quite curious to hear what "the point" was according to you.

by **Stephan** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:18 pm

All right then, here's our review!

I have been away for over a week and haven't been online much, but some buzzing sounds reached my ears nonetheless. I haven't investigated it yet, but the buzzing noises whisper about drama caused by someone saying this book treats women in a very misogynistic manner (and an agent speaking out of turn, but such things happen and I like humans, so I'll ignore that part). In response to those noises, I'd just like to tell you all that I fell completely head-over-heels in love with Katherine. She's one of the most awesome female characters ever, and I look forward to reading more about her. (L)

Also, Prince of Thorns is the best book I've read all year. Though it is very close to Wise Man's Fear. :w00t:

by **Mark Lawrence** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:54 pm

Aloren wrote:So I just finished this the other day. I read it straight through... so fascinating. I am not sure if the site is writing a review for this. I believe so but I wanted to discuss it anyway... I also saw Mark joined the boards so I guess he can jump in to like Drake did for his books. <3

I have been reading some of the other reviews and I disagree with many of them. I think some of these reviews missed the point. Maybe I read to much into it?

I tried to write quite a lot into it, and it sounds like you *got* it.

I didn't write 'Prince of Thorns' with publication in mind, and when that unlikely end took me by surprise I was pretty sure that the haters would be lining up to take a shot at the book. Although I attempted to write something of worth - not some great work of literature, but a story that at least tried hard to capture something real - I was pretty convinced that many readers would just scratch the surface and see it as simply glorification of violence and evil. It also seemed likely that others would latch on to the work at a buzz-word level and use it in a negative way to promote their own agendas.

It seems however that I underestimated my fellow readers, or at least those of them who love the genre enough to blog and review. Of the 23 on-line reviews that I know about, 21 are very positive, one just didn't 'feel' the story, and only one single reviewer out of those 23 considered it a shallow wallowing in empty violence that proved the author to be a dispicable human being

So I could just leave it there rather than waste time defending myself against the 1/23rd ... but I like to argue

Probably the worst accusation has been that of misogyny, on all levels (albeit from a single source):

i) That the MC is a misogynist - well I could live with that because he's certainly guilty of worse crimes. To my mind though calling Jorg a misogynist is misguided as calling the saucer-aliens who have come to KILL ALL HUMANS anti-semitic.

ii) That the book as a whole is misogynistic. Well I'd refute that. I have never held to the idea that each book on its own needs to present a balanced view of the world (particularly when it's given through the eyes of one person) and satisfy all equality demands, any more than each short story, song, picture, or TV program does. If I make a film about a week in the trenches of WWI I'm not going to make half the actors women in order to satisfy people who view the world through a collection of -isms! It would be nice if taken as a whole the coverage of WWI in literature and film showed the experience of all the people affected, at home as well as on the front, in the factories, in the air, under the sea... but each single book about it doesn't have to! The same holds, I would argue, for one short novel on the experiences of a young man in a mercenary band in violent times.

iii) That I'm a misogynist for writing it!

This last one is one of those accusations that like the 'when did you stop beating your wife?' question are aimed like flung mud - they're designed to stick and allow no defence. All I can to is let the numbers do my talking.

At last count on GoodReads half the people rating the book were female. For each woman rating the book 3* or less, there were 18 rating it 4* or 5*

Finally, you've read (I hope) the 5* review on site. By contrast here's a 1* review:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews ... addOneStar

by **Mark Lawrence** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:56 pm

Stephan wrote:Also, Prince of Thorns is the best book I've read all year. Though it is very close to Wise Man's Fear.

Sounds like I should read 'Wise Man's Fear' then! Though I'll need to read 'Name of the Wind' first!

by **Stephan** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:14 pm

Dude, you definitely should! Especially after I called Jorg Kvothe's evil little brother. :angel:

I never did take Jorg for being mysodamnit— that word is so hard to remember. In fact, I think Katherine was the human being he was most positive about. Also, I don't feel this book is more violent than any other. In fact...

The fact that the reasons for his actions were so well-explained makes this less evil, in my eyes, than works from authors like GRRM and Abercrombie.

by **Mark Lawrence** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:27 pm

Stephan wrote: Also, I don't feel this book is more violent than any other.

I'd agree with you - I think 'A Dance With Dragons' has more gruesome excess than 'Prince of Thorns'. I did a blog about why I think the perception that 'Prince of Thorns' is so dark comes mostly from writing in the first person:

http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/

Who is online