Game of Thrones!

by **Stephan** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:29 pm

Here's a preview! I'm so psyched!

Caleigh blogged about it, too. What do you think? Like it?

by **Manon Eileen** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:35 pm

I never read these books, unfortunately. Have you read them, Stephan?

I wonder if I should read the books first or if I should just watch the show. It does look amazing.

by **Stephan** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:51 pm

Manon Eileen wrote:I never read these books, unfortunately. Have you read them, Stephan?

I wonder if I should read the books first or if I should just watch the show. It does look amazing.

I've only read the first three. Though I didn't like them as books (I'm alone in that, it seems), I think they would be perfect as a TV series. The preview seems very true to the book, too!

by **Manon Eileen** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:27 pm

I guess I'll just watch the show

I don't think I have the patience to go through another one of those huge series :oops:

by **Caitrin** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:30 pm

I love the books and I think if you read them you would get a better idea of what's going on, the history, the culture, etc but the tv series looks like it's going to be so good I'm sure you won't be missing out on much!

by **caleighm** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:13 pm

Words cannot express how excited I am for this series.

OMGGGG :w00t:

by **Stephan** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:06 pm

For some reason, I cannot shake the image of Ned Starke being a weak arrogant bastard trying to steal a magic ring from a little man. :no:

by **caleighm** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:44 pm

No way. He is AWESOME. Rugged, badass, scruffy, etc.

by **Drake** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:04 pm

caleighm wrote:No way. He is AWESOME. Rugged, badass, scruffy, etc.

by **Michael** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:30 pm

Stephan wrote:For some reason, I cannot shake the image of Ned Starke being a weak arrogant bastard trying to steal a magic ring from a little man.

Just watch the last 10 minutes of Fellowship a few times to see an awesomely heroic death and a bit of deathbed repentance!

I watched the preview last night. I thought it was awesome but because I have literally just started listening to the audiobook (about 4 hours in) the opening scenes were very fresh in my mind and I couldn't help noticing the rewritten dialogue and other differences, although some of George's crackers are still in there - 'It seems your dead men have moved camp.'

Having said that, I am in the camp of those in favour of changes to make a better show. I am the complete opposite of the Rings fans who were like 'Where's Bombadil?!??! This sucks!!11'

by **Stephan** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:40 pm

Haha. I enjoy changes. Film (or TV) is a whole different medium than a book. A story should be changed to fit that. Unless the changes are too blatantly and have too large an impact on the actual story.

Be my friend on Goodreads · by **Benni** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:43 pm

Michael wrote:I am the complete opposite of the Rings fans who were like 'Where's Bombadil?!??! This sucks!!11'

Haha, I was one of those fans who were very, very glad Bombadil didn't make it into the film. Agree that changes should be made to better fit the medium...but I guess what constitutes "better" is often up for dispute.

by **Stephan** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:52 pm

You're probably right. I guess that's the problem with adapting books to films. However, all the discussion doesn't weigh up to how Lord of the Rings has completely boosted the fantasy genre, or how Game of Thrones will be doing the same (I hope).

by **Manon Eileen** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:20 pm

To take the thread even more off topic... lol

*cough* Harry Potter *cough* The books were really cool but the movies were just all about the dragonslaying. Who cares about those stupid dragons, I wanted to see the actual action that happened in the books!

I do agree that the LotR movies boosted the fantasy genre - particularly on screen. They're still one of my favorite movies (but I for one haven't read the books... Which books did I read?!).

As for shows that were changed WAY TOO MUCH to fit the screen... Sword of Truth / A Seeker... something something. I don't even remember what it's called, it sucked that much. The only thing that matched the story was Kahlan's gown.

Be my friend on Goodreads · by **Benni** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:36 pm

I never thought the prologue was very representative of the first book, and to release a preview that mostly consists of the prologue may make viewers who've never read the series have a different idea of what the show is going to be like. No, it's not really a show about medieval zombies.

As of now, I can't tell the actors for Theon Greyjoy, Robb Stark, and Jon Snow apart. Except that Jon Snow is the boy that Catelyn shoots eye daggers at.

I love Sean Bean, but from the excerpt, the acting seems a bit wooden.

Now, please, please, I hope the series is good!

by **Stephan** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:27 pm

Since you guys are die hard fans, weren't you bothered by the fact that...

Be my friend on Goodreads · by **Benni** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:35 pm

Not really sure I need the spoiler tag, but I'll use just in case.

by **Stephan** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:56 pm

They'll end up under the table!

Still, though... While I disliked the slowness as a book, I think it would be amazing as a series. And won't Game of Thrones be fit into one season?

by **caleighm** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:29 am

Here's your spoiler tag ...

LOOOTS of spoilers, folks.

by **Stephan** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:19 pm

Didn't the book have exactly the same prologue? :oops:

Be my friend on Goodreads · by **Benni** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:09 pm

In response to Caleigh:

by **Stephan** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:11 pm

Actually...

by **Aloren** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:45 am

Nothing to add other than this

is how I feel about it all.

by **Manon Eileen** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:50 am

Lol, I love that emote

by **Caitrin** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:09 pm

I was pretty happy with what was shown, though I agree with Stephan a bit and if we don't see them in this next book I just might despair -_- My Dad wishes we could watch the series together!

but we almost never see each other. So instead I'll be getting my Mom to watch it with me ^^

by **Stephan** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:32 pm

A 25 minutes Making Of special! :w00t:

Be my friend on Goodreads · by **Benni** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:39 pm

Reply to Stephan's last spoiler tag:
That's true, haha.

by **Michael** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:28 am

Sorry ladies, apparently George R. R. Martin is not for you, at least the New York Times says so:
http://tv.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/arts/television/game-of-thrones-begins-sunday-on-hbo-review.html

by **caleighm** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:15 am

That's such a BS, arrogant, ignorant review. Amy Ratcliffe wrote a really great response on Tor.com: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/04/a-resp ... nes-review

by **Marty** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:22 am

Sooooooo . . . Game of Thrones was awesome =]

Wanna talk about it? =p

by **Stephan** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:27 pm

I do! It was freaking awesome! Again, I wanted to comment on the extreme amount of sexual content, but then I realized that was actually one of the reasons I disliked the books.

Overall, though, it was amazing! Can't wait the see the rest of it. This will easily be my new favorite show after Stargate ends. _O_

Oh, and what the ef is with Daenerys' eyes? Those can't be real, right? :w00t:

Be my friend on Goodreads · by **Benni** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:08 pm

To answer Stephan's question:

I love the series so far.

by **Stephan** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:29 pm

Be my friend on Goodreads · by **Benni** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:45 pm

In response to Stephan:

What did others think?

Be my friend on Goodreads · by **Benni** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:01 pm

caleighm wrote:That's such a BS, arrogant, ignorant review. Amy Ratcliffe wrote a really great response on Tor.com: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/04/a-resp ... nes-review

I was definitely bewildered after reading the Times review, though many women wrote great responses. But after quickly sorting through my various feelings about the original review, it's funny that the most prominent feeling I had was jealousy—they let someone who doesn't even like fantasy watch THE MOST ANTICIPATED TV EVENT OF THE YEAR in advance of me? Ginia Bellafante, if you want to send someone the advanced tapes of the first six episodes of Game of Thrones, write me here: benni@rantingdragon.com.

by **Manon Eileen** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:20 pm

As someone who hasn't read the books......And doesn't know anything about the books in general...

I have to say I hadn't anticipated the huge amount of sex, guts and ... incest *shudders* :shock:

I had no idea. But I hear it's pretty true to the books.

Especially the whole incest thing just seems a little far-fetched to me and ... just there to shock. But what do I know, I've only watched one episode. To me the huge amounts of sex in books and other TV shows (Rome, Spartacus, etc) are a good way to distract people from the actual story. It just doesn't *add* anything. Plus eventually it always makes me wonder why no one's dying of syfilis.

I have to say I love Sean Bean and I really like him in this role too. He seems sensible. Much more than most of the other characters.

And hello to Jason Momoa (Ronon Dex ;')

). Will he have many lines? If he won't, I certainly won't mind :angel:

If he does... (nana)

Still have to get a feeling for this show though and have to remember all the characters.

The brother of... Daenylel something, the white-haired girl, he reminds me of Gaius Baltar. Except for the nasty sister-feeling. :wall:

I'll continue watching this show but I'm not sure if I'll be able to cope with these huge amounts of incest. Very graphic sexual content is one thing, very graphic incestuous content quite another.

by **Stephan** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:23 pm

He sure is as much of a wimp as Gaius. :whistle:

by **Manon Eileen** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:27 pm

Gaius is my fav character of BSG ever :angel:

But I don't think this character will be my favorite.

But let's not stray from our topic here

Be my friend on Goodreads · by **Benni** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:55 pm

Manon Eileen wrote:I'll continue watching this show but I'm not sure if I'll be able to cope with these huge amounts of incest. Very graphic sexual content is one thing, very graphic incestuous content quite another.

by **Michael** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:48 am

While there is a general social acceptance that incest is icky, in ancient and even some medieval cultures among the nobility/royalty it was accepted if not (as in the case of ancient Egypt and other places I'm sure) mandatory.

Spoiler for Game of Thrones book, no big deal if you've read it:

by **Manon Eileen** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:29 am

Michael wrote:While there is a general social acceptance that incest is icky, in ancient and even some medieval cultures among the nobility/royalty it was accepted if not (as in the case of ancient Egypt and other places I'm sure) mandatory.

I know that. There was an article in the National Geographic magazine a while ago where they laid out the pedigree of (I think) a Spanish family in the middle ages. They were all just brothers and sisters, and eventually not more than mentally (and physically) retarded kids resulted from those marriages :bad:

The purpose, however, was to keep the throne (and power) in the family.

But knowing this doesn't make it any less uncomfortable to watch, especially since it's not at all accepted in our modern world

I discussed this at length with my boyfriend last night. He didn't like it AT ALL and doesn't want to see any more of it. I do, for the sake of my love for fantasy and because I want to know what all the love for ASoIaF is all about...
But we concluded that the sex in the show is not functional. It didn't particularly serve a purpose, at least not in this very first episode. And we didn't see "loving" sex at all. There was rape (or whatever you'd call it that the barbarian and the white-haired girl were doing, even if that wasn't particularly visual), incest and a brothel. I guess it's "realistic", or something, but... It just was a little much for all in one episode. At least you had Ned and C(K?)at that loved each other but that was kind of a rarity

And you should know that I am not generally afraid of watching sex scenes

All the sex aside - I love that they all have little wolves. That's cool. (But the maggots falling from the dead mother's eyes was another thing that was just a tad overdone

)

Also, I adored the sets and the costumes. Very nice.

by **Michael** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:17 pm

Manon Eileen wrote:I know that. There was an article in the National Geographic magazine a while ago where they laid out the pedigree of (I think) a Spanish family in the middle ages. They were all just brothers and sisters, and eventually not more than mentally (and physically) retarded kids resulted from those marriages
The purpose, however, was to keep the throne (and power) in the family.

Sorry, had a bit of a teacher moment. I didn't mean to sound patronising. The main point of the post is what I put in spoiler tags, which I'm guessing you didn't read.

My point was, incest is icky, I'm with you 100% on preferring not to see it, but there's precedent for it existing in such a world as Martin's. On the plus side, if the series follows the book there won't be any more direct and confronting displays of it.

Also, in the book Martin made Daeny's first night (at least) with Dhrogo not so terrible. She was excited to be free of Viserys, if nothing else, and Dhrogo was much more gentle.

by **Stephan** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:13 pm

Oh, good news, by the way! The series has already been renewed for a second season!

Be my friend on Goodreads · by **Benni** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:37 pm

I think the AfterElton reviewer also mentioned that episode 1 was the worst out of the first 6 episodes he saw, and episode 1 was still pretty good. Woohoo for season 2!

by **Manon Eileen** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:13 pm

That's all good news

Michael, you didn't sound patronizing, don't worry.

by **Drake** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:37 am

So, howdy all. Sorry to come to the party late... deadlines and all that...

So... Game of Thrones... before I start, I would like to clarify something. I think that this series is one of the best-crafted pieces of fantasy literature to date. So, just because I am about to "sound" like I am ripping it a new one, I am not.

That said, I am amazed that they decided that this was the piece to use for an epic fantasy TV series. I am more amazed that HBO has already ordered season 2. And here is why...

First and foremost... it ain't done. The fact that the 4th book, A feast for crows, came out in November of 2005 (yea, nearly 6 stinking years ago) is an absolute slap to this fan-boy's face (and pretty much everyone I know who is also a fan of this series feels the same.) And the fact that someone convinced the normally tight-with-their-money-and-for-the-most-part-unwilling-to-take-any-risks executives to start a TV series based on a book series that has lain dormant for that long is amazing. Though, I have to say, for Martin it is a dream come true. I personally think that had HBO not done this series, a large portion of the fans of this series would not have coughed up the money for the next book. As for me, I had already decided that if it was not worth Martin's time to put out the next book in a timely manner, it was not worth my time to read it. I would have waited until the entire series was out before I purchased another book from this series. But, as their evil plan was designed to do, I have fallen for this "slight of hand" trick and have already ordered my copy of book 5. Why? Because in watching the show, I have remembered how friggin awesome this series is! Still, I will read it with an air of being really really upset! (I am sure that will teach Mr. Martin a lesson!)

Second, (and here is where I start the real issues, the first one was just my personal gripe) this book is slow, as Stephan has stated more than once. Almost the entire 1st book is about the nuances of character development. American audiences are going to have a hard time with this. They want action and adventure from jump.

Third, there are a friggin lot of characters. More than a lot. I have talked with several people who haven’t read the books, and the general consensus is that they are lost. Not with the main characters like Ned Stark, Jon Snow, the king and the Lannisters. But, the ones that are just mentioned, like the last Hand (and the one before that,) Cat's sister, the Hound, etc. There are just so many, the "none readers" of the series I have spoken to are feeling overwhelmed.

Fourth, with the TV series you are missing all of the nuances of the characters. Case in point; there is a lot of discussion here about the incest between Jaime and his sister, Cersei. And, as creepy as it is, as you all have stated, in the TV series it is just sex between siblings. But, in the book, it is so much more. Jamie really loves Cersei. He is upset that he is her brother, and therefore can never publicly acknowledge his feelings. But, nonetheless, he loves her with all his being. If you can get over the brother sister thing, it is a true romance. Cersei, on the other hand, is just a manipulative bitch and is using his love as a weapon to control him and force him to do stuff he really does not want to. This is a shame as in the series, Jamie is coming off more evil than he is, and Cersei is not coming off evil enough. And, this love is a major driving force in developing Jamie and driving several plotlines. But that is just the beginning. The book is all about relationships, both past and present, and the intricate weavings that are created by them. It is these relationships that drive the story forward. So far, in my humble opinion, they have not been able to capture this on the screen to the level that is holding the attention of those who have not read the series. Which is a shame, as Martin did a masterful job of it in the books… And yes, Stephan, this made the books really really slow. But, it is these threads that make this such a wonderful piece of literature.

On the flip side, there are so many fans of this series, they may be enough to carry the load. It all comes down to money. And for HBO, that means subscribers and DVD sales. The great thing about this series, at least so far, is that they are staying true to the books. Which, for me as fan of the series, is awesome. I am not lost, because I know the intricacies already. I have read this series about 5 times now. This is just one more layer of me being immersed in a world I love. Without a doubt, I will be purchasing the DVD set of this to put next to my hardback copies of the book. And, I am willing to wager that many fans of this series will do the same. So, provided that we the fans give HBO back their money for creating this, they will probably continue on with it.

I am just not sure how many “new” fans it will create. And, I am not talking about those who will watch this and say, “wow, I need to read this.” I am talking about non-readers. I think that only a small portion of non-readers will stick with this series even to the end of season one. There is just too much that will cause them to drop it. Hopefully, for we who are fans, there will be enough of us to entice HBO to continue until they finish the series. And if not, I will add this to my ever-growing shelf of unfinished TV series with hanging plotlines that I own. Let’s take a trip down memory lane, shall we? V, oh wait, they made a remake of V… no wait, they canceled that one as well, Stargate Atlantis (though they did rush a finish of a semblance of an end,) Stargate SGU, Firefly, Space above and beyond, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, the 4400, Farscape, Invasion, Journeyman, Millennium, Roswell, Threshold, Touching Evil, My Own Worst Enemy, Jericho, Startrek TOS – and if I am going that far back I might as well throw in Buck Rodgers, The Others, Odyssey 5, Dead Like Me, Legend of the Seeker, Better off Ted, My Name is Earl (I really hate them for killing My Name is Earl and I hope that whoever was responsible has a really nasty case of allergies that lingers on indefinitely forcing him (or her) to spend all their life savings on tisues and they die a poor, and snot-filled wretch!), Dollhouse, Kyle XY, Crusoe, Eleventh Hour, Heroes, Life on Mars, Babylon 5, oh wait, they finished that one on a different network… go Babylon 5!

And that is simply what I can come up with off the top of my head without getting up and walking into the room that houses my DVD collection. I am sure there are more series that had promise that some executive killed.

Anyhoo, I will conclude by saying, “Yea for us fans of this series, HBO is doing a wonderful job. Yea for us fans of this series that HBO has ponied up the money for season two.” But, my confidence level drops off sharply after that.

Oh, and…

by **Stephan** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:41 am

Drake wrote:V, oh wait, they made a remake of V… no wait, they canceled that one as well

No! No! NOOOOOOO!!!! SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!! :shock:

I had not heard of this before. Has it ended already, or is it in midseason hiatus? Because that ending I saw was just... HORRID!

Drake wrote:It is these relationships that drive the story forward. So far, in my humble opinion, they have not been able to capture this on the screen to the level that is holding the attention of those who have not read the series. Which is a shame, as Martin did a masterful job of it in the books… And yes, Stephan, this made the books really really slow. But, it is these threads that make this such a wonderful piece of literature.

Ok, I'm over that shock. Well, not really, I just need to learn to live with the loss. :'(

Now, to reply to the other quote... How interesting that it's addressed to me.

Those relationships... Yeah, they are probably something I can see people love. Personally, though, I'd rather just watch some soap opera than read it in a fantasy book. It was cheap. All of it.

And it is exactly why I love Game of Thrones so fiercely. I just finished watching the second episode, and though I hated several elements of it, the fact that I hated it is why I love it so much. Perhaps they didn't capture all the drama on screen... I certainly don't miss it. The series is actually moving along at a pretty amazing pace. Several times I found myself thinking: "Wait, what? Is that happening already? That happened like a quarter into the book!" That illustrates the pacing of the show. They are moving along pretty fast, and I'm loving it. All the drama fits the screen pretty well, and I love what they did with the story. I almost cried when the direwolf was killed, while it didn't cause me anything but annoyance in the book.

Also, you pointed out that many don't understand it. I can't know for sure, as I have read the books, but I think people should just pay a bit more attention. If I compare this to the one other HBO series I love (Boardwalk Empire), the two are a lot alike. At Boardwalk Empire, I needed to pay really close attention as well. Some parts, I needed to watch twice, just because I'm Dutch and some of the conversation went a bit too fast for me. This is definitely a more intelligent series than many of the entertaining junk out there. I would just urge people to pay more attention to it than they would to a series like... uh... V?

I loved that the sex in the second episode was a lot less blatant, btw.

by **Drake** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:31 pm

Stephan wrote:
Drake wrote:V, oh wait, they made a remake of V… no wait, they canceled that one as well

No! No! NOOOOOOO!!!! SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!! I had not heard of this before. Has it ended already, or is it in midseason hiatus? Because that ending I saw was just... HORRID!

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But, if you want to stay hopeful, they have not "officially" announced that it is dead! Course, as with all canceled shows that had promise, they never rush out and deliver the bad news right off. It does suck that they had finally gotten their act together, and the end of season two was really quite stunning. And a massive cliffhanger! The big shocker to me was One life to Live. I mean, how could they? They only gave it 10,000 episodes! How can they expect to develop a plot line is such a short time? :oops:

Stephan wrote:the fact that I hated it is why I love it so much.

Taken out of context, that line makes you sound silly!

But, I get your point. If you did not appreciate the intricacies of the web of character development in the books, you would not miss them in the show.

As for others not keeping up, keep in mind that you are watching this from the perspective of someone who has read the books. Just as I am. But I have several friends who are big fantasy fans, yet have not read the series. It is through the lengthy discussions with them that I have come to realize how much is missing from the show. With conversations that start with, "Well, here is the back story to that. Do you see how it now all fits together?" I have come to see that those on the outside are just that, on the outside.

Again, not bashing the series. I am enjoying it completely. I am just voicing my fears about the longevity of the project. Again, as anyone who hangs around me long enough hears over and over again... It is all about the money. Case in point for HBO, Rome was just about the best period piece from that era I have ever seen. Yet, they did not order a second season until they got in data from their DVD sales. That is why there was a blank year between season one and two.

I hope I am wrong. If for nothing else, by continuing to produce the series, this should give Martin the extra incentive to finish the book series! :evil:

The one show I have to give props to was the remake of Battlestar Galactica. The writers/producers of that show saw the writing on the wall and took matters into their own hands, ending the show a year early just to insure they ended it the way they wanted. Even though confidence was pretty good that SYFY was going to renew it for its final fifth season. But, as with much of TV, the executives where holding out to the very end to make the decision. So, bam, let's end this in season four and insure we tell the story we want to tell. I call that loyalty to the fans.

Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

by **Michael** » Wed May 11, 2011 12:13 pm

I've now seen 3 of the 4 episodes and I have really enjoyed it so far. I think it falls into that happy category of adaptations where there are a lot of things that aren't the way I imagined them but I like the show regardless and those things don't cause hang ups.

by **Stephan** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:22 pm

My memory of the books must be messed up. I just found out there will be three more episodes. I really expected this last episode to be the season finale. :oops:

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